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	<title>Comments on: We Are Not Rich, We Are Stupid.</title>
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	<description>One Year In India</description>
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		<title>By: Vishy Kuruganti</title>
		<link>http://blog.pamandphil.com/rich-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-1424</link>
		<dc:creator>Vishy Kuruganti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 05:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pamandphil.com/?p=1802#comment-1424</guid>
		<description>Phil &amp; Pam,
You tale inspired me to post our own &#039; been conned&#039;  story:
http://ulaar.wordpress.com/2009/07/17/the-janus-man/

Vishy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil &amp; Pam,<br />
You tale inspired me to post our own &#8216; been conned&#8217;  story:<br />
<a href="http://ulaar.wordpress.com/2009/07/17/the-janus-man/" rel="nofollow">http://ulaar.wordpress.com/2009/07/17/the-janus-man/</a></p>
<p>Vishy</p>
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		<title>By: Ellen Fields</title>
		<link>http://blog.pamandphil.com/rich-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-1420</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellen Fields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pamandphil.com/?p=1802#comment-1420</guid>
		<description>We had a similar thing happen to us here in Mexico. We employed the mother of a Mayan family, and when the 16 year old daughter wanted to go to beauty school, we thought that was a wonderful way for us to help the family. We told her we would pay the inscription and for any supplies she needed... just bring us the receipts. 

The inscription was paid directly to the school. The girl brought us receipts... first a few at the end of the month, then a few each week, then more and more. We thought they must really be working and working up to a big finale for graduation. When it came time to graduate, we asked when graduation was. Couldn&#039;t get a straight answer. Finally went to the school... the 16 year old hadn&#039;t been showing up for months, except to get the receipts from all her classmates that she then turned into me and turned into cash.

(sigh)

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face, looking a gift horse in the mouth and killing the goose that laid the golden egg. 

We cut her off immediately (we had gently fired her mother months earlier because she really didn&#039;t clean very well). 

She came back six months later and said she was sorry, she wanted to go again. We asked what it would cost, etc. She told us. But we weren&#039;t stupid this time. We called the school...no she wasn&#039;t enrolled. She had given us a bank account to deposit the money into... no, it didn&#039;t belong to the school.

Needless to say, we aren&#039;t planning to get fooled again.

The poverty is not as bad here in Mexico, but the class and monetary differences exist. The Mayans look at us, with our big houses (in comparison to theirs), our cars, our computers... and they think we can afford to give them things. We do as much as we can, but if we gave to everyone who asked, even those close to us (you can imagine we know a lot of people now after eight years), we&#039;d be broke.

In the end, I figure we have to look out for ourselves first... we are the goose, after all. And then our own children. And then if we have anything left, we try to help those who will go the farthest with it and who have proven that they deserve it. 

Check out (if you are interested) this story on our website about a women here who organizes the sponsorship of 50 kids now... She only sponsors the kids who can keep their grades up. There are a lot of stories, and a lot of kids who need help. But in the end, it seems to make sense to help the kids who are actually going to USE that help to better their lives, the lives of their families and the country.

http://www.yucatanliving.com/daily-life/apoyo-program-for-students-in-progreso.htm

Hang in there! Abrazos de Mexico!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We had a similar thing happen to us here in Mexico. We employed the mother of a Mayan family, and when the 16 year old daughter wanted to go to beauty school, we thought that was a wonderful way for us to help the family. We told her we would pay the inscription and for any supplies she needed&#8230; just bring us the receipts. </p>
<p>The inscription was paid directly to the school. The girl brought us receipts&#8230; first a few at the end of the month, then a few each week, then more and more. We thought they must really be working and working up to a big finale for graduation. When it came time to graduate, we asked when graduation was. Couldn&#8217;t get a straight answer. Finally went to the school&#8230; the 16 year old hadn&#8217;t been showing up for months, except to get the receipts from all her classmates that she then turned into me and turned into cash.</p>
<p>(sigh)</p>
<p>Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face, looking a gift horse in the mouth and killing the goose that laid the golden egg. </p>
<p>We cut her off immediately (we had gently fired her mother months earlier because she really didn&#8217;t clean very well). </p>
<p>She came back six months later and said she was sorry, she wanted to go again. We asked what it would cost, etc. She told us. But we weren&#8217;t stupid this time. We called the school&#8230;no she wasn&#8217;t enrolled. She had given us a bank account to deposit the money into&#8230; no, it didn&#8217;t belong to the school.</p>
<p>Needless to say, we aren&#8217;t planning to get fooled again.</p>
<p>The poverty is not as bad here in Mexico, but the class and monetary differences exist. The Mayans look at us, with our big houses (in comparison to theirs), our cars, our computers&#8230; and they think we can afford to give them things. We do as much as we can, but if we gave to everyone who asked, even those close to us (you can imagine we know a lot of people now after eight years), we&#8217;d be broke.</p>
<p>In the end, I figure we have to look out for ourselves first&#8230; we are the goose, after all. And then our own children. And then if we have anything left, we try to help those who will go the farthest with it and who have proven that they deserve it. </p>
<p>Check out (if you are interested) this story on our website about a women here who organizes the sponsorship of 50 kids now&#8230; She only sponsors the kids who can keep their grades up. There are a lot of stories, and a lot of kids who need help. But in the end, it seems to make sense to help the kids who are actually going to USE that help to better their lives, the lives of their families and the country.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.yucatanliving.com/daily-life/apoyo-program-for-students-in-progreso.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.yucatanliving.com/daily-life/apoyo-program-for-students-in-progreso.htm</a></p>
<p>Hang in there! Abrazos de Mexico!</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://blog.pamandphil.com/rich-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-1417</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pamandphil.com/?p=1802#comment-1417</guid>
		<description>WhyIsTheMostImportantQuestion,

Thanks for the lucid thoughts. We do see the poetry, I assure you, and we have definitely seen that the con is not personal, but a function of survival. We are going with the flow and trying to be both kind and smart :)

You are correct too, asking for help here is always fun because people are so very willing to do so. Not always the case in the States :)

Finally, yes the BBC series we watched before we came here, it surely whetted our appetites !

Namaste back at you...

Phil :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WhyIsTheMostImportantQuestion,</p>
<p>Thanks for the lucid thoughts. We do see the poetry, I assure you, and we have definitely seen that the con is not personal, but a function of survival. We are going with the flow and trying to be both kind and smart :)</p>
<p>You are correct too, asking for help here is always fun because people are so very willing to do so. Not always the case in the States :)</p>
<p>Finally, yes the BBC series we watched before we came here, it surely whetted our appetites !</p>
<p>Namaste back at you&#8230;</p>
<p>Phil :)</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://blog.pamandphil.com/rich-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-1416</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pamandphil.com/?p=1802#comment-1416</guid>
		<description>On Marrying Cousins...

Funny too that Pam&#039;s little remark about that sparked such discussion. Clearly there are legacy customs that do still hold sway in various parts of the world, India included... 

But the issue is not whether it is legal or illegal, customary or taboo; the issue is the *science* of it. 

Very simply, inbreeding does in fact cause birth defects, and we see many more such physical manifestations of those here than we ever do back home (where it is &quot;illegal&quot;). I think in a place like India, where there are SO many people, and so many who live in rural villages where literacy is optional, the challenges around dissemination of information are HUGE. So many people on any given streetcorner here do not know about AIDS or basic food safety, and more abstract issues like the relationship between inbreeding and birth defects will be even harder to convey.

It&#039;s a very tough problem, and India knows it. People everywhere here do their best, though it may be just a drop in the bucket, by teaching and giving and volunteering any number of ways. Pam, too, has started teaching at a nearby orphanage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Marrying Cousins&#8230;</p>
<p>Funny too that Pam&#8217;s little remark about that sparked such discussion. Clearly there are legacy customs that do still hold sway in various parts of the world, India included&#8230; </p>
<p>But the issue is not whether it is legal or illegal, customary or taboo; the issue is the *science* of it. </p>
<p>Very simply, inbreeding does in fact cause birth defects, and we see many more such physical manifestations of those here than we ever do back home (where it is &#8220;illegal&#8221;). I think in a place like India, where there are SO many people, and so many who live in rural villages where literacy is optional, the challenges around dissemination of information are HUGE. So many people on any given streetcorner here do not know about AIDS or basic food safety, and more abstract issues like the relationship between inbreeding and birth defects will be even harder to convey.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a very tough problem, and India knows it. People everywhere here do their best, though it may be just a drop in the bucket, by teaching and giving and volunteering any number of ways. Pam, too, has started teaching at a nearby orphanage.</p>
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		<title>By: Vishy Kuruganti</title>
		<link>http://blog.pamandphil.com/rich-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-1409</link>
		<dc:creator>Vishy Kuruganti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pamandphil.com/?p=1802#comment-1409</guid>
		<description>Fascinating story, Phil &amp; Pam. A few quick comments...
1. I have a similar &#039;being conned&#039; story so Americans aren&#039;t the only ones being conned by Indians :) It&#039;s really a rich vs. poor story. It doesn&#039;t matter that you don&#039;t own a home in SF. If you are living in a house with a swimming pool &amp; have a big heart or rent an apartment in Raheja Residency &amp; are driving a Maruti Suzuki SX4, you ARE rich.

2. Like Pam rightly observed, had I written my &#039;being conned&#039; piece immediately after it occurred, it would have come across as &quot;my faith in humanity is shattered&quot;.   As one of my friends observed, it&#039;s not personal, it&#039;s survival &amp; eking out that extra 100 rupees to get to that next thing...

Will return to this post &amp; comment on other aspects but for now, let me applaud you guys for experiencing India the way you are. India is truly a spectrum of cultures, sub-cultures, and nuances.

Vishy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating story, Phil &amp; Pam. A few quick comments&#8230;<br />
1. I have a similar &#8216;being conned&#8217; story so Americans aren&#8217;t the only ones being conned by Indians :) It&#8217;s really a rich vs. poor story. It doesn&#8217;t matter that you don&#8217;t own a home in SF. If you are living in a house with a swimming pool &amp; have a big heart or rent an apartment in Raheja Residency &amp; are driving a Maruti Suzuki SX4, you ARE rich.</p>
<p>2. Like Pam rightly observed, had I written my &#8216;being conned&#8217; piece immediately after it occurred, it would have come across as &#8220;my faith in humanity is shattered&#8221;.   As one of my friends observed, it&#8217;s not personal, it&#8217;s survival &amp; eking out that extra 100 rupees to get to that next thing&#8230;</p>
<p>Will return to this post &amp; comment on other aspects but for now, let me applaud you guys for experiencing India the way you are. India is truly a spectrum of cultures, sub-cultures, and nuances.</p>
<p>Vishy</p>
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		<title>By: WhyIsTheMostImportantQuestion</title>
		<link>http://blog.pamandphil.com/rich-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-1405</link>
		<dc:creator>WhyIsTheMostImportantQuestion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pamandphil.com/?p=1802#comment-1405</guid>
		<description>Scott, your generalisations - &quot;[Stealing] It&#039;s a part of who they are...&quot;, &quot;[Marraige amongst cousins] is the preferred method&quot; is just naive. I don&#039;t think any place on earth lives up to any kind of generalisation, and would most definitely lay a bet that India is the one place that statement holds true (yes, I realise the oxymoron here). 

People will be people. And survival is any person&#039;s primary concern. And India is filled, up to the brim and survival in this country is hard. Every job is contested for, every nook and cranny is being fought for, every opportunity is chased after by ten. And knowing that there are no consequences to improper behaviour, by either the law keepers or while dealing with the transient population such as tourists (Indians and foreigners), makes people who are prone to take advantage of others even bolder. But this is the sad part of India. But it&#039;s like America in so many ways as well - I have had exactly the same experience there when someone thought I was a tourist.

But there&#039;s poetry here too!

I&#039;d like to mention one other thing. I&#039;m sure you&#039;ve realised by now that culture shock isn&#039;t something that happens to you in the first two weeks and then goes away. It keeps hitting you. It took me two years to reacclimatise after returning to India from the US. Till then, I felt the same frustrations, irritations, confusion. And knowing the local language didn&#039;t help that much either because it wasn&#039;t the language, I couldn&#039;t understand the people.

So, a few words of advise: First, stop fighting it. Just accept it for what it is without expectation, without relating it to something familiar. It&#039;ll make life a lot easier. Second, knowing the history behind why things are the way they are will help you learn to love the place for what it is. Third, make friends. Indians are extremely social and your independent living in the US is in sharp contrast against the way things work here. Fourth, use the fool-proof tourists technique while making any large purchases - get second and third opinions. Ask different people the same question of how much something costs. You&#039;ll frequently end up with the right price. And don&#039;t feel hesitant to ask your co-workers for help on ANYTHING. You&#039;ll find that they are more than willing to help you out.

These strategies helped me. I hope they help you too.

With that, I say namaste (I bow to the light in you)!

P. S. To help you with your Indian education, watch the series - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id7VvjQ2G9c</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, your generalisations &#8211; &#8220;[Stealing] It&#8217;s a part of who they are&#8230;&#8221;, &#8220;[Marraige amongst cousins] is the preferred method&#8221; is just naive. I don&#8217;t think any place on earth lives up to any kind of generalisation, and would most definitely lay a bet that India is the one place that statement holds true (yes, I realise the oxymoron here). </p>
<p>People will be people. And survival is any person&#8217;s primary concern. And India is filled, up to the brim and survival in this country is hard. Every job is contested for, every nook and cranny is being fought for, every opportunity is chased after by ten. And knowing that there are no consequences to improper behaviour, by either the law keepers or while dealing with the transient population such as tourists (Indians and foreigners), makes people who are prone to take advantage of others even bolder. But this is the sad part of India. But it&#8217;s like America in so many ways as well &#8211; I have had exactly the same experience there when someone thought I was a tourist.</p>
<p>But there&#8217;s poetry here too!</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to mention one other thing. I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve realised by now that culture shock isn&#8217;t something that happens to you in the first two weeks and then goes away. It keeps hitting you. It took me two years to reacclimatise after returning to India from the US. Till then, I felt the same frustrations, irritations, confusion. And knowing the local language didn&#8217;t help that much either because it wasn&#8217;t the language, I couldn&#8217;t understand the people.</p>
<p>So, a few words of advise: First, stop fighting it. Just accept it for what it is without expectation, without relating it to something familiar. It&#8217;ll make life a lot easier. Second, knowing the history behind why things are the way they are will help you learn to love the place for what it is. Third, make friends. Indians are extremely social and your independent living in the US is in sharp contrast against the way things work here. Fourth, use the fool-proof tourists technique while making any large purchases &#8211; get second and third opinions. Ask different people the same question of how much something costs. You&#8217;ll frequently end up with the right price. And don&#8217;t feel hesitant to ask your co-workers for help on ANYTHING. You&#8217;ll find that they are more than willing to help you out.</p>
<p>These strategies helped me. I hope they help you too.</p>
<p>With that, I say namaste (I bow to the light in you)!</p>
<p>P. S. To help you with your Indian education, watch the series &#8211; <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id7VvjQ2G9c" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id7VvjQ2G9c</a></p>
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		<title>By: Deewane</title>
		<link>http://blog.pamandphil.com/rich-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-1395</link>
		<dc:creator>Deewane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pamandphil.com/?p=1802#comment-1395</guid>
		<description>Found an article about marriage among cousins. Includes some info on the issue about other countries as well (including the U.S.). It&#039;s not entirely accurate though for eg. the part about only the &quot;twice-born&quot; castes having the system of gotras (lineage), coz I know that gotra would always an issue whenever there was a discussion on marriage in my (extended) family, but would still consider it mostly reliable.

Do check it out : http://www.vepachedu.org/manasanskriti/menarikam.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Found an article about marriage among cousins. Includes some info on the issue about other countries as well (including the U.S.). It&#8217;s not entirely accurate though for eg. the part about only the &#8220;twice-born&#8221; castes having the system of gotras (lineage), coz I know that gotra would always an issue whenever there was a discussion on marriage in my (extended) family, but would still consider it mostly reliable.</p>
<p>Do check it out : <a href="http://www.vepachedu.org/manasanskriti/menarikam.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.vepachedu.org/manasanskriti/menarikam.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: scott</title>
		<link>http://blog.pamandphil.com/rich-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-1392</link>
		<dc:creator>scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 07:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pamandphil.com/?p=1802#comment-1392</guid>
		<description>On Marrying cousins

I have a very good friend who is a Doctor in the US Navy, he is a Commander (lieutenant Colonel) He is Indian but was born in the US and grew up here. He married his first cousin from India. Hi mother&#039;s brother&#039;s daughter. I am the only one who knows. He only told me because we were talking one day and I don&#039;t know how the conversation turned to marriages but I said hey, In India don&#039;t people marry their cousins? He and his wife looked at each other in a funny way and then he told me they were first cousins. He is not from any village and neither is his wife. This is very common in South India. In fact that is the preferred method. I had another friend who was a Phd. here from India, he almost married his cousin. In the US its wrong and social suicide but in India it is OK and completely normal. It comes from Vedic times when there were not a lot of people on Earth. It has to be a specific alignment though, it can&#039;t be any cousins. There is some sort of rule of which I don&#039;t know for genetic reasons. Kind of weird that you and your spouse have two of the same grandparents!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Marrying cousins</p>
<p>I have a very good friend who is a Doctor in the US Navy, he is a Commander (lieutenant Colonel) He is Indian but was born in the US and grew up here. He married his first cousin from India. Hi mother&#8217;s brother&#8217;s daughter. I am the only one who knows. He only told me because we were talking one day and I don&#8217;t know how the conversation turned to marriages but I said hey, In India don&#8217;t people marry their cousins? He and his wife looked at each other in a funny way and then he told me they were first cousins. He is not from any village and neither is his wife. This is very common in South India. In fact that is the preferred method. I had another friend who was a Phd. here from India, he almost married his cousin. In the US its wrong and social suicide but in India it is OK and completely normal. It comes from Vedic times when there were not a lot of people on Earth. It has to be a specific alignment though, it can&#8217;t be any cousins. There is some sort of rule of which I don&#8217;t know for genetic reasons. Kind of weird that you and your spouse have two of the same grandparents!</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://blog.pamandphil.com/rich-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-1391</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 06:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pamandphil.com/?p=1802#comment-1391</guid>
		<description>Scott,

Next time you come, you stay with us for a bit, OK? We have lots of room and we would love to meet you :)

Phil :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott,</p>
<p>Next time you come, you stay with us for a bit, OK? We have lots of room and we would love to meet you :)</p>
<p>Phil :)</p>
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		<title>By: scott</title>
		<link>http://blog.pamandphil.com/rich-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-1388</link>
		<dc:creator>scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 05:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pamandphil.com/?p=1802#comment-1388</guid>
		<description>I have been to India six times mostly to see Sai Baba, I&#039;ve been conned a few times. India is treacherous that way. I love India and don&#039;t hold it against them. For them there is no shame or immorality in trying to get money. They don&#039;t feel bad about doing it. Its just part of the culture. I once stayed at a prominent Sai Devotee&#039;s house in Bangalore. This man had been a regional president and a somewhat big figure. He had money by India standards and degrees. He arranged a taxi for me the next morning to go to Puttaparthi. He decided he wanted to go with me and would take the taxi back that same night. I aksed him how much the taxi was. He told me the price. I paid him not knowing what the one way fare was, but what I realized later was I had actually also paid his return without him telling me. I don&#039;t hold it against him because that&#039;s just how they operate in India.

Peace</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been to India six times mostly to see Sai Baba, I&#8217;ve been conned a few times. India is treacherous that way. I love India and don&#8217;t hold it against them. For them there is no shame or immorality in trying to get money. They don&#8217;t feel bad about doing it. Its just part of the culture. I once stayed at a prominent Sai Devotee&#8217;s house in Bangalore. This man had been a regional president and a somewhat big figure. He had money by India standards and degrees. He arranged a taxi for me the next morning to go to Puttaparthi. He decided he wanted to go with me and would take the taxi back that same night. I aksed him how much the taxi was. He told me the price. I paid him not knowing what the one way fare was, but what I realized later was I had actually also paid his return without him telling me. I don&#8217;t hold it against him because that&#8217;s just how they operate in India.</p>
<p>Peace</p>
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